Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. For those who once were baptized and confirmed into Mormonism, what is your status? We probably do not want to know how horrible it is just like in this life, some things that are so horrible that happen (especially to children) wed rather not know about it, if possible. 9:4. According to the Doctrine and Covenants, this will be a place that even in outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth (Doctrine and Covenants 101:91; also see 133:73). Only a handful of "sons of perdition" would go. Here, like John and Samuel, Alma equated the second death with the lake of fire and brimstone. In Mormonism, Outer darkness is described as "those who are unfaithful, those who will listen to Satan, who will lend a willing ear to his blandishments and to his allurements, when they go from this state of existence, they go into a condition where they are subject to his power. The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. That being said, I don't think it really matters at the end of the day, because if it is all real, I want to stay clear away from anyone who the Church says deserves the Celestial Kingdom. So, if you are directly listing to Satan, like Cain, and actively turning away from God, like Cain, then you can become a Son of Perdition. Ah yes, well with clarity like that, why would Jeremy ever doubt them and ask for official sources! 4. It occurs in a doctrinal discussion Alma conducted with his son Corianton. 1. . Yet what kind of devious person would it be who knew full well that Mormonism was trueincluding the historicity of theBook of Mormon,the authenticity of the restored churchs leadership that began withJoseph Smith,and the accuracy of theFirst Visioneventand then fight against these truths? Thus ensued the War in Heaven, which resulted in Satan and his followers being cast out of heaven and denied the opportunity of receiving a physical body. (Conference Reports, October 1958, p. 21. 6:8). 2:11). They go too far, and the Spirit leaves themYou cant renew them to repentancyou cannot save them. (Joseph Smith Jr., King Follett Discourse). Big Love's episode "Outer Darkness" Summary: It is not our intention to discuss details of the portrayal of the temple ceremony here. Mormon theology ultimately portrays Outer Darkness as heaven, and Satan as the God of that realm. If he were ignorant, he could not have become perdition. There are three references that connect the judgment with a lake of fire and brimstone, and two references to a lake of fire. However, the use of the word fire in connection with judgment and the torment of the wicked is widespread throughout the Gospels. We found these portrayals to be highly inaccurate. For example: everlasting fire (Matt. The second possible sons of perdition are mortals. This is a place very close in nature to the biblical hell. The second death is a second separation from God, not because of Adams transgression (the first death) but because of ones own failure to repent of personal sin. To become a church member, baptism and confirmation are required. The Bible teaches that there is a devil and a hell, but the place of hell in the plan of salvation is taught best by the Book of Mormon. The first death is physical death, and everyone but the devil and his angels will overcome physical death through Resurrection. Dennis L. Largey was an associate professor of ancient scripture at Brigham Young University when this was published. Jesus also referred to outer darkness in two parables he gave during the last week of his life. J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881. 40 talks in 40 days for General Conference, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The city of Capernaum was upbraided for its lack of faith in view of the miracles Jesus performed there. The wicked, or in this particular context, the sons of perdition who are filthy still after judgment and resurrection, are assigned to everlasting punishment (see 2 Ne. (Elder Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine Lecture, #2, Brigham Young University, 1967.). 18:8)? The New Testament contains four references to the second death, all located in the Revelation of John. If their Prophet wrote in a journal, or said to someone in passing, or gave a talk a local school saying that, Eating toast without butter is a sin worthy of hell! that does not make it a Mormon Doctrine. A) Most humans B) Satan C) His angels D) Sons of Perdition. For most, outer darkness, the lake of fire, and the second death have an end, but for the sons of perdition these states continue eternally. So only a prophet can put the matter to rest well, thats nice that Brigham said there were no women, Joseph F. said there were no women, but Wilford Woodruff said there was no debate and there must be women. Additionally it provides helpful commentary on New Testament passages concerning hell. They are the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, the telestial kingdom, and outer darkness. Banishment from the glory of God. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 195456), 31.; Bruce R. McConkie, Seven Deadly Heresies, 1 June 1980, BYU Marriot Center.). 67, LDS Church Archives. Today, interpretation of these "outer darkness" verses are a subset of Protestant discussion on hell and annihilationism. We believe that after the final judgment there are four places to which a person may be sent. Again Mormons think this is a very hard place to get into. In the Bible, the phrases lake of fire and lake of fire and brimstone, describing the fate of the wicked, are unique to the book of Revelation. [1] The pains of hell can also be experienced in mortality (Jacob 3:11). Pingback: The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, A Son of Perdition is: Source. Clearly fire is used as a metaphor for sufferingnot a literal fire but a state of misery. See Michael Hicks, Joseph Smith, W.W. Phelps, and the Poetic Paraphrase of The Vision, Journal of Mormon History 20 (Fall 1994) 2: 63-84 for discussion of authorship of this poem.). In Mormonism, it depends. To add an RSC website shortcut to your home screen, open the website in the Safari browser. Possibly but there is no citation there either. Thus the Book of Mormon does seem to contain a reference to the degrees of glory and outer darkness. https://www.mormonwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Outer_Darkness&oldid=27067. They will not have a kingdom of glory. (see Rom. However, I think the breakdown I have above is accurate because outer darkest is a place of permanence for the filthy. Jesus disciples were told not to fear those who could kill the body but to fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Matt. It is the closest Mormon analogy to the concept of hell in most other Christian traditions. Nephis words can thus be applied to Jesus parable: the reason the rich man could not cross the great gulf to Abrahams bosom, or the reason the wicked could not join the Saints of God at the tree of life, is because the justice of God does not permit it. Jesus of Mormonism but the Jesus of the Bible. Cain is a Son of Perdition. Bruce M. Metzger and Michael D. Coogan (New York: Oxford University Press, 1993), s.v. Each differing in Glory but all great places to go. Can someone get out of this state of Perdition once they are in it? In each of the New Testament references to outer darkness, Christ declared the punishment that awaits faithless and wicked people. Who of the following is NOT eligible for Outer Darkness. According to tenth President Joseph Fielding Smith. I wonder if the language is tripping people up here. Think along the lines of a religious leader serving God but the opposite. About 74 B.C. Many of the apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Continuous suffering, however, is reserved only for sons of perditionthose who are still unclean after the final judgment. Conclusion The Book of Mormon text confirms the truth of New Testament teachings on hell, second death, lake of fire and brimstone, and outer darkness. This is a place very close in nature to the biblical hell. Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball wrote. The punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, D&C 19:10-12. Though we have this clarity in the scriptures that we carry with us daily, few members are aware that this insight is there." With the exception of those who left the church and later rejoined, every other former Mormon left the church because they believed it is not true. Tenth President Joseph Fielding Smitha general authority who spoke more about this issue than any other leaderstated. I said: I dont know and he said, How can I find outI just called Spencer Kimball and he told me he didnt know either. There are ten references to the lake of fire and brimstone in the Book of Mormon. First of all, to become a son of perdition, you need to have been baptized into the church, then turned from the religion in order to fight against it, all the while knowing it is true. what about that 1/3 the host of heaven who didnt follow Gods plan Joseph F. Smith was so sure qualify as Sons of Perdition were NONE of them women? The LDS version of the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon help us to understand that the word black is actually a Hebrew idiom, meaning gloomy, dejected, or spiritual darkness, and has nothing to do with skin tone. Alma the Younger contributed even more insight on the second death when he gave the wicked people of Ammonihah a detailed description of the fate of those who harden their hearts against the word of God: Then if our hearts have been hardened, yea, if we have hardened our hearts against the word, insomuch that it has not been found in us, then will our state be awful, for then we shall be condemned. Does this description of God make it sound as if he is just (at least according to an LDS context)? Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition (Conference Reports, October 1958, p. 21). The ex-mortal sons of perdition will be resurrected, as will everyone else; but they will finally suffer the second death, the spiritual death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. (Hel. If you want to make the point that Mormon Prophets have said some weird stuff, I am all for it. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Twenty-nine times the word hell is used with descriptive modifiers, for example, depths of hell (1 Ne. 10 reasons why a person ought to consider becoming a Christian. The word hell is mentioned twenty-three times in the New Testament: fifteen times in the Gospels, twice in the book of Acts, once each in James and 2 Peter, and four times in the book of Revelation. Outer darkness is a place reserved for the Devil, his angels, and the sons of perdition. It is an eternal destination, a place where very few (if any) human beings will ever be sent. What do Mormons believe happened in the pre-existence? The phrases depths of hell, awful hell, sleep of hell, pains of hell, chains of hell, everlasting hell, and endless hell are all unique to the Book of Mormon. Their theology was turned upside down! Okay, so Cain, we have one guaranteed person according to no citation whatsoever. 14:34), awful hell (1 Ne. Salvation is release from the guilt and power of sin through God's gift of grace. Ball (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2001), 7789. D&C 76 does say telestial people are the ones thrust down to hell and not redeemed until the last resurrection. 13:42), the fire that never shall be quenched (Mark 9:45), where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:48), and cast into the fire (Luke 3:9). (2) We believe in allowing our candles to burn for a maximum of four hours at a time. However, based on the teaching of church leaders, I believe it is utterly impossible for any mortal to become this despised son of perdition. Clearly, when it comes to perdition and outer darkness, I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me, and anyone who speaks on the matter has a dizzying intellect. The Book of Mormon does not teach the doctrinal truth that hell will end for the majority of those who suffer in the spirit prison prior to being resurrected and entering the telestial kingdom; however, this truth is clearly taught in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 76:3638, 106). When I was Mormon, I was taught that in order to be sent to Outer Darkness (I'm a woman, that will be relevant in a second) you had to have an UNMISTAKABLE KnOwLeDgE of Christ, and then turn your back on God and deny him. The question is, what exactly does full knowledge entail? Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, The. 18:8), hell fire (Matt. 23:33). Hence, the very worse lot in their lives will be the telestial kingdom. In harmony with this doctrinal truth that death and hell will deliver up the spirits and bodies of their captives, King David received the promise that his soul would not be left in hell (see Ps. Delving into the interesting bits about any religion to stem from Joseph Smith Jr. Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor). Everyone but the Sons of Perdition and the devil and his devils, will overcome spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. In the rest of the article, were going to have to assume that Mormonism is true (of course, I dont think it is!) Serve Satan. It doesnt matter because I never joined. In Mormonism, it depends. While Christianity affirms that many people who were created by God will perish in hell, Mormonism also espouses this . Unfortunately, Apple's iOS doesn't support home screen shortcuts in the Chrome browser. One of these guests, however, appeared without the proper wedding attire. 185 Heber J. (Selections of Doctrines of Salvation, p. 462. Outer Darkness is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the Sons of Perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Some Christians have believed the lake of fire John spoke of to be a literal lake. (-Joseph Smith in the King Follett Discourse), There is my definition I used in my previous post. But the children of the kingdom [i.e., covenant breakers] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. No exact details are given. The Prophet Joseph Smith would not countenance the teaching of this doctrine, and sanctioned the decision of the bishop that any who taught it should be barred from communion (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 125). When I bring this issue up with some Latter-day Saints, I sometimes get defensive arguments. Yet I never was baptized and confirmed into this church. There are two categories for those who should be considered sons of perdition. 67, LDS Church Archives. Because reasons. They once held membership in the church (through baptism/confirmation); They had full knowledge of their apostasy from the true and restored church of Jesus Christ; They continue to fight against the LDS Church despite their knowledge. It is doubtful if even Judas, who betrayed Jesus, was sufficiently enlightened to become a son of perdition (Gospel Doctrine,p. 545). For many years, those who have forfeited their membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may have been told by other Mormons that they were Sons of Perdition destined for Outer Darkness. Outer Darkness. The apostle James taught that the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity . I have no fear of hell fire, that doesnt exist, but the torment and disappointment of the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstoneso is the torment of man. It is, therefore, important to examine carefully the context of each reference. 6:28), hell fire (3 Ne. John the Revelator heard Christ proclaim that he possessed the keys of hell and of death (Rev. and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell (James 3:6). The conclusion: You (former Mormon), despite being baptized into this church, are not a son of perdition! In Peters second general epistle to the Church, he taught concerning the angels who had sinned, saying that God cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness (2 Pet. Hell is outer darkness; it is the lake of fire; and it is the second death. 11:23). Publishing, 19871989), 4:227228. The sinner must deal with the self-created gulf on his own, with the help of the Savior and his Atonement. Doctrine and Covenants / Pearl of Great Price, Mormon Objections to Christian Evangelism, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church. According to Smith: It is very clear in the Doctrine and Covenants Section 76:30-37, that the only persons who will be completely overcome by this dreadful fate are the sons of perdition who go with the devil and his angels into outer darkness. (Answers to Gospel Questions 5:107-108). 14:1519). All missionaries are doing is trying to upgrade people to a premium plan of ruling over planets and polygamy. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. A) Never had a body B) Did evil things in this world C) Never joined the LDS Church D) All of the above are true. But Mormons do not believe that just because a Prophet said it, that it makes it true. Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming. Also, Joseph confuses things further by combining words typically used with Hell to describe outer darkness: A sinner has his own mind and his own mind damns him. Mormons believe we existed before coming to Earth. it could be a reference for the resurrected who gain inheritance on other worlds but without the fulness of This website is not owned by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (sometimes called the Mormon or LDS Church). 21:8; see also 19:20). 2. This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition. Those who followed Lucifer in his rebellion in the premortal life and those who in mortality sin against the Holy Ghost are sons of perdition. Everyone is already going to the terrestrial kingdom by default. Here is one more thing to think about: I work full time with a Christian ministry aimed at converting Mormons. Banishment from all progress. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God banished entirely from his presence (Ibid.). Through his Atonement, Resurrection, and ministry in the spirit world, Christ provided a bridge by which repentant souls could cross the gulf from hell to spiritual freedom. Rev. Mormons believe that a majority of people on this Earth will go to one of these three heavens. The righteousness of some (Abraham or Lazarus) cannot erase the consequences of anothers sins (the rich man). 3. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. They will not have access to the Holy Ghost or Heavenly Father or Jesus. Hence the saying: They will go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Clean and Unclean So, in conclusion, I would have a hard time believing that you or billions of souls as you put will qualify for perdition even while taking Mormon beliefs into account. Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie have rejected the idea that those in perdition can ultimately be redeemed, which contradicts Brighams speculations. This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition (Doctrines of Salvation 2:220). And, if you havent come into relationship with the Jesus of the Bible, I encourage you to do some homework and meet Him. Circumcision. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), 758. How impossible would it be for a former Mormon (with full knowledge, even!) 5:30). 10:28). Required fields are marked *. It clarifies how using an obscure quote does not define LDS doctrines or dogmas. and they were judged every man according to their works (Rev. The New Testament testifies that there is an actual place identified as hell into which people can be cast, as in the case of the wicked, and from which they can lift up their eyes, as in the case of the rich man, and from which they can be delivered, as in the case of King David. Outer Darkness. The "authority" to marry a man to one wife is not the same as the "authority" to marry a man to more than one wife. One fire certainly shall be the lot of both. [4]. As used in the New Testament, hell is an English word which is translated from two Greek words: hades (used ten times) and geenna (twelve times). so we will be able to realistically discuss the likelihood that a person who left the church could ever end up in Outer Darkness. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. Banishment from the joys of heaven. In revealing Satans tactics, Nephi wrote: And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is noneand thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance. Your email address will not be published. Both Luther, who taught soul sleep till the resurrection of the dead, and Calvin, who taught the immortal soul, considered the "outer darkness" references in Matthew to refer to the last judgment. Even the wicked of the earth who never knew the power of God, after they have paid the price of their sinningfor they must suffer the excruciating torment which sins will bringshall at last come forth from the prison house. 12:22; Morm. Alma 40. He had a sure witness of the Lord and willfully chose to follow Satan instead. Even the most evil of people, including Adolph Hitler and those of his ilk, appear to have a place reserved for them in nothing less than the telestial kingdom. Smith told a general conference audience: I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. Gregory A. Boyd, Paul R. Eddy Across the Spectrum: Understanding Issues in Evangelical Theology pp285 2009 "For example, how can hell be a place of outer darkness (Matt. T F According to a church manual, those who never were Mormon could never be sent to Outer Darkness. The extent of this punishment none will ever know except those who partake of it. 9:16), unquenchable fire (Mosiah 2:38), and hell fire (3 Ne. For those born in this life, the person must be a former member who knew Mormonism was true but still rebelled and went against the truth while still knowing it was true. In the parable of the talents, the returning lord instructed that the wicked and slothful servant who hid his talent in the earth be cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. He also saw a pale horse with a rider whose name was Death, and Hell followed with him (Rev. This is what was taught by several important church leaders, including founder Joseph Smith. Brigham Young University Professor Larry E. Dahl reported: The word hell appears sixty-two times in the text of the Book of Mormon. (You are not one of those spirits since you have a mortal body.). [4] Augustine, The City of God, trans. But what is light? Plagiarism and The Globe a comparative analysis, The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism), https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf, https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22, LDS Church and Same Sex Marriage Timeline, The Pump LDS film and the original source, Ethan Smith, Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding connections. Alma 40. This is the final destination of Satan himself. Brigham Young University You have to be pretty bad to go to the Teresita's kingdom, and horrendous to go to outer darkness. Lets go to modern revelation: that there would be no daughters of perdition. Joseph F. Smith Stan Larsen, ed., A Ministry of Meetings: The Diaries of Rudger Clawson, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Smith Associates and Signature Books, 1993) p. 560, Somebody called me up on the telephone and asked if there were daughters of perdition. King Benjamin defined the cause of this great torment: Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. 22:13) that awaits the wicked? lucifer. 801-422-6975. (Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor), Collected Discourses: Delivered by Wilford Woodruff, his two counselors, the twelve apostles, and others, 18681898, 5 vols., (Woodland Hills, Utah: B.H.S. Clearly, when it comes to perdition and outer darkness, I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me, and anyone who speaks on the matter has a dizzying intellect. And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. The Book of Mormon teaches that only through the Atonement of Christ can one escape the damnation of hell. Jacob testified that without the infinite atonement all mankind would be forever subject to the awful monster, death and hell, and thus would become like the devil and his angels (2 Ne. (p. 273). Smith said this will be practically indescribable: The extent of this punishment none will ever know except those who partake of it. . Sorry ladies, you cant actually apostatize from the church, I guess (Someone tell Kate Kelly her excommunication is not valid!). 3:20; 10:9- 10; Eph. The views expressed . 28:2223). In Mormonism, it depends. By taking 2 Nephi 2:25 to its logical conclusion, we learn that Satan also fell that men might be, and that they might have joy! (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 125). As explained in D&C 88:11-13: Banishment from the presence of God. Followers 0. How unfair is this scenario? 9:1012, 1516). 21:8). Additional doctrinal truth concerning the great gulf can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 138:1837). Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. He cried: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death. This desperate cry for forgiveness through Christ brought deliverance from the pains of hell Alma had experienced because of his sins (Alma 36:1620). (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881.).